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Post Info TOPIC: 37mm M1916 Infantry Gun
MarkV


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37mm M1916 Infantry Gun
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Hello,

I am looking for plans and dimensions for the 37mm M1916 Infantry Gun developed at the Puteaux Armory in France and adopted by the US Army. 

Here's what I've pieced together of the history so far:  France's Puteaux Arsenal created the "Canon d'Infanterie de 37 modele 1916 TRP" by essentially adapting a Nordenfelt breech to an 1885 Hotchkiss 1-pounder.  This gun was mounted on a variety of vehicles and carriages.  As used on the FT-17 it was known as the "Puteaux 37mm SA-18 L/21", more commonly known as the "37mm Puteaux". 

This gun was adopted in both its infantry and tank mounted form by the US during WWI as the "M1916".  License was secured to produce the gun in the US and quite a few were bought directly from the French as well.  French-made guns (both tank and infantry types) were used in action by US troops in France during WWI.  The infantry guns remained in US Army service until 1942 and saw action against the Japanese in the defense of the Philippines.  Ironically, the Japanese also used a derivitive of the M1916, called the "37 mm Taisho Type 11 Infantry Gun". 

Meanwhile, during the lean years of the 1930s, the US Army began using these guns as subcaliber training pieces.  Special mounts were developed to allow these guns to be temporarily clamped to the barrels of larger artillery to allow their crews to practice live fire without the expenditure of expensive larger caliber ammunition.  In this role, the M1916 continued in service until around 1952, when they were retired due to lack of spares.  (I wonder what the Army did with all of the retired guns???)

I am working with a group of re-enactors who want to build a full-scale replica of one of these guns and need all of the plans and photos that we can find for the gun, it's carriage, and it's associated equipment.

We've Google-searched the net and have come up with about 50 photos, mostly low-resolution.  Of course we've also seen the article on the Landships website.  What we need is a detailed photographic "walk-around" survey of an existing piece as well as detailed plans.

Thank you,

MarkV

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Mario Wens


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Mark,

I can measure and photograph the sample in Brussels for you. However: this one doens't have any wheels on it...

Mario



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MarkV


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Mario,

Thank you for your offer.  I wouldn't want you to go to any trouble, but if you are planning a visit to the museum, I'd appreciate a series of photos showing the details of the gun and its carriage. 

I am still hopeful that I'll be able to locate some dimensioned plans.  I have found an undimensioned, over-all plan, section, and a side view of the gun (without its wheels) in a 1940 US Army field manual (FM 23-75).  This manual also has a few basic dimensions listed in the text, so I should be able to scale it out and dimension the plans myself. 

What I'd like to find is a copy of the "Standard Nomenclature List No. A-7" published by the Ordnance Department.  These documents reportedly contain part-by-part plans for the gun and its equipment.  One sold on EBay recently here, but the price was too rich for my blood.  Unfortunately, these documents don't seem to be available in any of the archives I've searched.

Another document that would be very helpful is "Instruction Provisoire du 30 Mai 1916 Sur le Canon de 37mm, Modele 1916 T.R." published by the French Ministere de la Guerre.  It reportedly contains numerous plans and photos.  I've come across it here, but can't seem to get anything but a basic description from their website.  I've also found what appears to be an English translation on Alibris here, but again, it is more than I'd like to pay - I don't want to pay a premium for an "artifact" when all I want is a portion of the information it contains.

Thanks again,

MarkV

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saintlo990


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Hi!
A few notes on your inquiry

The 37 mm M1917 SA Puteau used in the Ft 17 was not the M1916 Infantry gun, but a Hotchkiss Semi automatic type using a vertical drop block breech.

The gun used in the U.S. Made Ft 17 did use the Mle 1916 inf gun with a ball mantlet and trunnions added. Once it was converted to a tank gun, it was a bugger to reconvert. It used the French oscillating breechblock like the French "75".

The Japanese 37 mm Type 11 Infantry gun was actually based on the 37 mm Japanese Sogekiho "Sniper" trench gun.  You have to read the U.S. Army WW II ordnance reports with a large grain of salt. They felt that anything that the Japanese made was a copy of a U.S. item.  I have also been corrected several times by Japanese historians who insist that even though Sogekiho translates as  sniper-gun it actually means Infantry gun.The "sniper" was based on a Hotchkiss type landing/ infantry gun with a vertical breech block. As a side note, the 37 MM Chinese type 14 was also based on the Sogekiho and it is sometimes difficult to tell them apart, except for the carriage trails.

I have several fold out drawings from the various 37 mm M1916 manuals, but none have dimensions attached. I also notice that there are several minor differences in existing French and U.S. guns. The U.S manufacturers converted all the metric dimensions to English, but made sure that all the major sub components would fit. You just had to retap and thread any bolts to U.S./English standards on the French made guns.

The wonderful new National Infantry Museum at Ft Benning GA has a gun on display- most of the attachments are still in storage though. A very complete gun is on display at the Washington Naval yard in Washington D.C. It is American made with the Flash hider and rare shield.


-- Edited by saintlo990 on Friday 1st of October 2010 01:28:51 PM

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saintlo990


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Correction to myself

The 37 mm Chinese infantry gun was not the type 25, but the Type 14 (1925), also there were 3 versions made by three different Chinese Arsenals, one of which was supposed to be a copy to the Mle 1916 French Inf Gun..

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jagjetta


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I don't have anything to add on dimensions, but can share three views of a 37mm being used: two by American troops and the other by French.
John

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John A-G.
Hudson, WI USA
Anonymous

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One of these cannons is located outside of the Ephrata PA AMVet in disrepair. It's been painted over but basically sound. This model has wooden wheels.



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Anonymous

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Check the current issue of the American Legion Magazine. There is a picture of one in action at Battle of the Argonne. My interest comes from my father having fought in that worst of battles. B, Bock



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