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Post Info TOPIC: Better Copy of Doty's Response
Phoenix Grad Student

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Better Copy of Doty's Response
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2/4/05


 


Dr. D. Jay Grimes


Provost


The University of Southern Mississippi


118 College Drive # 5002


Hattiesburg, MS 39406


 


Dear Provost Grimes:


 


I am in receipt of your letter dated February 3, 2005 detailing your recollection of our meeting on January 21, 2005.  Your letter contains factual errors, misrepresentations and omissions.  As a consequence of these inaccuracies, I am compelled to offer this response to correct the record.


 


Tourism Management


 


Your recollection of our discussion about Tourism Management is largely correct.  I did object to Mr. Wilson’s appointment as department chair.  However, you omitted the primary reason for my objection – Mr. Wilson appears to be neither professionally nor academically qualified according to AACSB guidelines.  Thus, I do not believe it would be prudent to place Mr. Wilson in the position as interim Department Chair.  As I stated, Mr. Wilson is a valued faculty member and an asset to the school.  As such, I have every intention of rewarding and supporting Mr. Wilson as a faculty member.  Mr. Wilson can continue to teach undergraduate courses because the AACSB requires that only 90% of the faculty be either professionally or academically qualified.  We may encounter some difficulties because we have only a single qualified faculty member on the coast, but I do not believe we need to address that problem this semester.


 


You omitted that both Dr. Niroomand and I were reluctant in our recommendation of Mr. Taylor.  Our reluctance was based, in part, on placing an individual who is currently an instructor, and at best will be a newly minted Ph.D., in a supervisory role over associate and full professors.  In fact, Dr. Niroomand suggested that we could perhaps fill the interim chair position with Dr. Henthorne, who is already a tenured, full professor and is currently listed on the Gulf Park budget.  You and Dr. Malone were not receptive to the suggestion. 


 


I realize that there may be legal difficulties surrounding the hiring of a new department chair for Tourism Management.  As I have previously stated, I believe that gender was used as a motivating factor when an offer of employment was not extended to a previous candidate.  At that time I advised you, President Thames, and Dr. Malone that in my opinion your decision to override the recommendation of the faculty, the department, and the dean of the College of Business was unwise and could have negative legal consequences for the university.


 


Finally, please recall that I suggested we use the vacant line for an Assistant Professor at the Gulf Park campus to support a new hire to help with the Charcoal Room should we appoint Mr. Taylor as interim chair.  In the short-term this would require transferring the Gulf Park line to the Hattiesburg campus.  While it is true that I do not know the exact cost to fill the line, or even if we should fill the line with a tenure track versus a visiting professor, I am certain that I can fill the position for less than the $70,000 dollars currently allocated for the position.


 


Economic Education


 


I take exception to your statement that there was a lack of CoB support for the K-12 economic education program.  A review of the facts reveals that the CoB has been the driving force behind the economic education efforts in the southern part of the state on behalf of Southern Miss for an extended period.  Our initial efforts in late 2003 resulted in a funding proposal submitted to the Vice President of Research and Economic Development under the cover of the College of Education and Psychology.  This routing was necessary because the person best able to deliver the program, Susan Doty, is my spouse.  The request for funding was denied by the university.  The next effort at establishing this program began when I initiated a meeting between myself, Pam Smith, and Ted Alexander.  As a consequence of this meeting, Dr. Smith and Dr. Alexander met with Ms. Doty.  Drs. Smith and Alexander concluded that Ms. Doty was the ideal person to deliver economic education programs and agreed with Ms. Doty to move forward.  The College of Business, represented by Ms. Doty, initiated the program on Economic Education at Southern Miss when Ms. Doty participated in her first seminar on or about September 2, 2004.


 


Your statement that I “said that [I] did not have any faculty that would be interested in the economic education” is factually incorrect.  I did state that the person who had initially agreed to nominally guide the program did not express sufficient interest in the program.  Further, I did state that I had not yet identified another faculty member to lead the program, nor had I begun selling the idea to another faculty member.  Finally, I did state that none of the CoB planned searches would explicitly include a faculty member with primary expertise in economic education.  That statement was based on my professional opinion that hiring such an assistant professor who would not join the university for almost a year was a poor use of resources and would slow the development of the program.  It appears that the empirical evidence supports my professional opinion.  I have a current CoB faculty member with a Ph.D. in economics who has agreed to serve as head of the economic education program.  I have implemented an organizational structure approved by representatives from the Mississippi Council on Economic Education.  The CoB was actively involved in the economic education program before the September 13 meeting and has continued to develop and deliver the program for several months.  In January 2005 alone the CoB participated in the delivery of five seminars that delivered economic education to over 100 K-12 teachers.  When I informed you and President Thames with the good news that the CoB was actively involved with the economic education program I received a reply from President Thames thanking me for sharing the good news.  My understanding is that, to date, the Department of Economic Development has made no progress and has delivered no economic education to K-12 teachers.


 


Your statement that you informed me of two meetings that included Drs. Malone, Grimes, Smith, and Alexander is misleading.  It is true that I was informed of these two meetings; however I was not informed by you of these meetings until our discussion on January 21, 2005.  To imply that I knew of the two meetings prior to January 21, 2005 is inappropriate.


 


Your statement that you have never authorized me to implement this program is factually incorrect.  In late October, 2004 I met with you in your office to discuss the strategic plan for the business school.  At this meeting I explicitly discussed the progress the CoB was making on the economic education program and our future plans.  At the conclusion of this meeting you instructed me to continue with all of the plans we had discussed.  Specifically, you told me that there was nothing we (the CoB) were currently doing that we should not be doing, and there was nothing we were not doing that we should be doing.  You acknowledged your previous statement in our meeting on January 21, 2005. 


 


The second time you approved this program was when I presented the strategic plan for the business school to President Thames in late November.  Please review the documents and you will see that economic education was explicitly included in the presentation.  At the end of my presentation you were explicitly asked by President Thames if you had any problems with the plans.  You said you would like to “chew” on the plan for a while, but if you had any objections you would let me know within one week.  To date, you have expressed no objections to the plan I presented.  Given your statement, I believe that the lack of stated objections constitutes approval.


 


The third time you approved my implementation of the economic education program was at the end of the meeting on January 21.  With Drs. Niroomand, Moore, and Malone present, I explicitly asked if we (the CoB) should move forward with our efforts in economic education.  You replied affirmatively.  I believe your exact words were “yes, we don’t want to stop anything we’re doing.”


 


Master’s of Business Administration


 


Your recollection of our discussion concerning the MBA program is largely accurate although you have omitted the discussion that the MBA program may be the largest Master’s program at Southern Miss.  You are correct that I would not promise the delivery of an alternative delivery format for the MBA program by the Fall, 2005 semester.  This new program requires faculty development and approval.  (Please review your statements about the EMBA program included in the proposal to renovate the Gulf Park library.)  In the current political environment, I was reluctant to state with certainty the outcome of a process that is political in nature. 


 


While I continue to push for a hybrid MBA I must inform you that the launch of such a program by your desired date is problematic.  First, in our meeting with the SACS consultant, we were explicitly told not to launch any new programs while on SACS probation.  My understanding is that we will be on SACS probation through, at a minimum, December, 2005.  Second, the hybrid MBA program that we are developing is a new program and much of the program will be delivered electronically.  As such, the new program probably requires following the substantive change procedures dictated by SACS.  Given that the hybrid delivery format is a distance learning program, and that our distance learning activities are a primary cause of our current probationary status, I believe it would be a grave mistake to launch the program without following SACS procedures.  Further, I think it is unlikely that SACS will conduct the necessary on-site committee review and approve the program prior to the beginning of the Fall, 2005 semester.  However, I will forward to SACS a letter articulating the planned initiation date of this program and my concerns.  I will ask SACS to clarify how we should proceed.


 


At this juncture I should also alert you to my concerns about the Jackson County MBA program that was launched by you and Dr. Malone in the Fall, 2004 semester.  I am concerned that this new program probably required a substantive change form, a site review by SACS, and SACS approval prior to initiation.  Please recall that SACS may have informed us that Southern Miss had not demonstrated, to the Commission’s satisfaction, effective educational oversight of our distance education.  To the best of my knowledge, no substantive change documents have been filed.  I am further concerned that SACS appears to require faculty participation in the development and launch of such a program.  The CoB faculty were not consulted or informed of this program prior to the press conference announcing the new program.  Please send to me copies of the substantive change documents associated with the new Jackson County MBA program for the CoB records.


 


I am also concerned about your repeated statements that we should position the College of Business to compete with William Carey and University of Phoenix.  Such statements are particularly troubling in light of your recent statement to me that you did not care about AACSB accreditation.  I have been slowly informing the business community about your instructions and the initial reactions are not positive.  I believe that implementing your instructions will have a significant negative effect on the university and our development activities.  I do not think the CoB alumni are supportive of your decision.  However, I will continue to implement your instructions.


 



College of Business Salaries


 


I have reviewed the national salary data included in the 2004-2005 AACSB Salary Survey for public AACSB accredited business schools.  In all but three cases, the average salaries for Southern Miss business faculty are below the respective AACSB averages.  Thus, while I cannot speak for Dr. Gunther, I have not made accusations I have merely stated facts.  Further, consistent with the President Thames’ public statements that Southern Miss is in the top 10% of U.S. universities, one can easily argue that the relevant reference point is the 90th percentile rather than the average salary.


 


College of Business Teaching Loads


 


The data you presented about CoB teaching loads did not include AY 2004-2005.  You included only a single semester.  Current teaching loads in the CoB are consistent with our peer and aspirant comparison institutions.  Recent data provided by you to the Executive Cabinet revealed that the average credit hour production of faculty in the CoB was one of the higher averages on campus.  However, I will continue to review faculty teaching loads per your instructions.


 


College of Business Focus


 


I am simply stunned by your assertion that the CoB should not be concerned with theoretical/basic research.  Basic research is a root cause of knowledge creation.  Knowledge creation is the heart of science.  As such, basic research is a key driver of a university’s reputation.  Further, I believe that your statement threatens the academic freedom of faculty.  However, I will present your statement to the faculty verbatim so that they understand this is your directive.  I will not engage in such egregious anti-intellectualism.    


 


Since I have become dean I have stated that the CoB must develop an intellectual contribution profile that is consistent both with the university mission and the CoB mission.  We are currently discussing a profile which would strive to achieve a balance of scholarship that focuses on the scholarship of discovery (40%), the scholarship of application (40%) and the scholarship of teaching (20%).  I will discuss this balance with other AACSB schools before it is finalized.  I will also consult our AACSB peer and aspirant comparison schools.  I remind you that in the last few weeks applied research conducted by CoB faculty has been headlined in both newspaper and television news from Jackson to the Mississippi coast.


 


AACSB Update


 


Your recollection that we did not discuss progress toward AACSB accreditation is largely correct.  However, I did report that the CoB was making progress.  We have approved a new mission, adopted core values, approved new mission relevant learning outcomes, initiated curriculum revisions, and are following the AACSB timetable for learning outcome assessment and continuous improvement.  Additionally, there has been a significant improvement in the efforts to generate intellectual contributions in the college.  Given your recent statement that you do not care about AACSB accreditation, I request that you send me written instructions determining whether the CoB should continue to seek ongoing AACSB accreditation.


 


Sincerely,


 


 


 


D. Harold Doty


Dean, College of Business


 


c.                Dr. Shelby Thames, President


Dr. Farhang Niroomand, Associate Dean, College of Business



bc:       Frank D. Montague, Jr. Esq.


            Robert B. McDuff, Esq.

            Brian A. Montague, Esq.

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Outside Observer

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Are all those ESQs copied on Doty's letter local attorneys?  What message does that send to copy 3 attorneys in a letter to your boss?!?!

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truth4usm/AH

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quote:

Originally posted by: Outside Observer

"Are all those ESQs copied on Doty's letter local attorneys?  What message does that send to copy 3 attorneys in a letter to your boss?!?!"


It sends the message that, in light of all the legal shenanigans pulled by SFT and cronies, you don't trust them one bit.  Not one tiny little bit. 


The battle for the intellectual life of USM just got bumped up a huge notch.  Let's hope that this battle will be the one to take Shelboo and Co. down.


NO QUARTER!



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Outside Observer

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I believe the proverbial line in the sand has been drawn!

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Angeline

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Whooo - it is so nice to see a response to SFT & Co. like this.  Prediction: because he doesn't know any better, Shelby will fire or demote Doty within the next few days.  Then the s--t will really hit the fan.  It is so nice to a dean stand up for his faculty against the craziness that is the Administration at USM. 

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Angeline

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quote:

Originally posted by: Angeline

"Whooo - it is so nice to see a response to SFT & Co. like this.  Prediction: because he doesn't know any better, Shelby will fire or demote Doty within the next few days.  Then the s--t will really hit the fan.  It is so nice to SEE a dean stand up for his faculty against the craziness that is the Administration at USM.  "

Forgot to type "see"

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ram

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quote:

Originally posted by: Outside Observer

"Are all those ESQs copied on Doty's letter local attorneys?  What message does that send to copy 3 attorneys in a letter to your boss?!?!"


The two Montagues (father and son) are local.  (Remember the wonderful letter of faculty support written last year by Brian's wife, Becky?) 


Don't know about McDuff.  Maybe Jackson or Coast. 


Note that attorneys received "blind copies" so their names were not on original to Grimes. That also means this copy came from files of either the sender, or one of the persons who were "blind copied," but not the files of the original recipient.


Doty sure strings words together better than Grimes.  Much better.



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Logical Positivist

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Operational definition of micromanagement and inappropriate interference with matters which are legitimate concern to the college: the letter posted on this thread.

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Lawyer up

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McDuff is in Jackson.  He was a Glamser/Stringer attorney--the one who did the opening statement and who guided Stringer through his testimony.  Very, very smart guy.  I thought he worked mainly for the ACLU, though it was not as an ACLU lawyer that he worked the G/S case.



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local interest

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Becky Montague is Brian's sister-in-law, not wife.  Brian is currently full-time active duty at Camp Shelby, which is probably why Frank Montague is copied, as well.  I think Brian was the "nebulous, misguided outside counsel" that Hanbury referred to in Doty's earlier battle with administration.  He, Frank Montague, and Rob McDuff are certainly up to this task.  I know I'd hate to be on the opposing side.

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USM Sympathizer

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quote:

Originally posted by: Angeline

"Whooo - it is so nice to see a response to SFT & Co. like this.  . . . It is so nice to a dean stand up for his faculty against the craziness that is the Administration at USM.  "


Agreed!



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Outside Observer

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someone hurry and get the foia paperwork all ready in case grimes replies!!

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Invictus

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quote:
Originally posted by: Outside Observer

"Are all those ESQs copied on Doty's letter local attorneys?  What message does that send to copy 3 attorneys in a letter to your boss?!?!"


McDuff isn't exactly local. I believe his office is in Jackson. He's the guy the ACLU sent for the Glamser-Stringer hearing. The Montagues are local. Whatever, these are heavy hitters.

Do we now know the names of that "nebulous & misguided counsel" that got Hanbury canned? Betcha a dime to a doughnut.

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Lawyer up

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McDuff often does work for the ACLU, but they did not send him last spring.  He was working as an independent attorney.



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ram

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quote:

Originally posted by: Invictus

" McDuff isn't exactly local. I believe his office is in Jackson. He's the guy the ACLU sent for the Glamser-Stringer hearing. The Montagues are local. Whatever, these are heavy hitters. Do we now know the names of that "nebulous & misguided counsel" that got Hanbury canned? Betcha a dime to a doughnut. "


Sorry about the mistake on Becky and Brian.  There goes my already minimal credibility. 


That said, I think the "nebulous and misguided" included another pretty fair Hatteisburg attorney named Sam Duncan.



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ram

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Oh, yes, and the word on the street was that Brian M. was also among the nebulous & misguided. 


BTW, although the two Montagues are father and son, they do not share a law practice. Brian left the original Montague firm some time ago and now practices from a separate office in Lamar County.


I can't assume to know who represents whom in this matter.



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Stranger Than Fiction

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Angeline,


To all the anti-Thames/anti-Grimes crowd, this Doty episode  may not play as well off campus as it is playing on campus.


Grimes's letter to Doty was correspondence from a supervisor to a subordinate.  In the "real world,"  it would be rare for any subordinate  to publicize such an argumentative response--many, if not most employers, are going to label such behavior insubordination.   It is one thing to disagree with your boss and to make your case, but I doubt that most off-campus observers will  understand Doty's arguing the case in the media.   Add the blind copies to the three attorneys, and you have a situation that is even more bizarre to folks outside academia.


The letter contains a direct order from Grimes to implement the new-format MBA by fall 2005.  It is fine for Doty to point out the pitfalls in doing so, but the bottom line in the private sector is that one would comply or resign.  No executive in the private sector would countenance Doty's response and would terminate him in a heartbeat.


In a university setting, the shared governance concept means that faculty see these matters differently, but in the community this episode may not do much more than reinforce the concept that what faculty need is a good dose of reality and that SFT is just the guy to give it to them.



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Outside Observer

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Wasn't this released as a result of an foia request?  what choice did he have?

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Emerald

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If all of the deans and department chairs had taken such a stance back when things began to get out of hand at USM, and be seen doing so, we'd not be in the deplorable situation we are in today. There should have been wholesale protest from all of the deans and chairs.

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LVN

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But that's why the Deans were all fired!

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Reporter

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quote:

Originally posted by: Stranger Than Fiction

"...  It is fine for Doty to point out the pitfalls in doing so, but the bottom line in the private sector is that one would comply or resign.  ..."


Stranger,  Doty does comply after listing the pitfalls.


"I am also concerned about your repeated statements that we should position the College of Business to compete with William Carey and University of Phoenix.  Such statements are particularly troubling in light of your recent statement to me that you did not care about AACSB accreditation.  I have been slowly informing the business community about your instructions and the initial reactions are not positive.  I believe that implementing your instructions will have a significant negative effect on the university and our development activities.  I do not think the CoB alumni are supportive of your decision.  However, I will continue to implement your instructions."


I agree with you about the public.  However, after almost 3 years I think they are getting the message that they are ignorant of how higher education works (and so is SFT).  They now are not as quick to think it should be run as a buniness, especially when they read that Jackson Co. got an MBA program without the knowledge or approval of the CoB faculty , thanks to decisions made by Malone, a polymer scientist.



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Emerald

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quote:

Originally posted by: LVN

"But that's why the Deans were all fired!"

The Dean of Stringer and Glamser's college was fired for protesting? I don't think so.

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truth4usm/AH

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quote:
Originally posted by: Emerald

"If all of the deans and department chairs had taken such a stance back when things began to get out of hand at USM, and be seen doing so, we'd not be in the deplorable situation we are in today. There should have been wholesale protest from all of the deans and chairs. "


I have to say, I do agree, Em. This was discussed on the old Fire Shelby board, if I recall. Reminds me of the passage oft-quoted on this board that starts, "First they came for the Jews..." I think someone else has changed it on another thread to "First they came for COAL..."



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truth4usm/AH

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quote:
Originally posted by: LVN

"But that's why the Deans were all fired!"


LVN, the original 9 deans were fired before all of this happened. I think you're being sarcastic, here, though...correct? In other words, the original deans were fired to make way for more compliant deans who WOULDN'T stand up to SFT...that was SFT's whole plan.

Am I reading you right?

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Outside Observer

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With apologies to those of you that have to live through it...but this is better than TV!

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In the know

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quote:

Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH

" LVN, the original 9 deans were fired before all of this happened. I think you're being sarcastic, here, though...correct? In other words, the original deans were fired to make way for more compliant deans who WOULDN'T stand up to SFT...that was SFT's whole plan. Am I reading you right?"

I don't know if you are reading LVN right, but you are right.  Ask Martray, Ferrell, Boudreaux.

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LVN

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quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH

"

LVN, the original 9 deans were fired before all of this happened. I think you're being sarcastic, here, though...correct? In other words, the original deans were fired to make way for more compliant deans who WOULDN'T stand up to SFT...that was SFT's whole plan.

Am I reading you right?
"


Correct. Think of who they were.

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Stranger Than Fiction

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Reporter,


You did not include the entire component of the letter dealing with the Coast MBA.  The concluding "However, I will coninue to implement your instructions," is clearly disengenuous.


Dean Doty's response would be more convincing, if after resigning as Dean, he made public his distaste for the current situation.  I admire and agree with the desired end but not the means.


"You can't have your cake and eat it too."


 



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Without a doubt

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"Dean Doty's response would be more convincing, if after resigning as Dean, he made public his distaste for the current situation.  I admire and agree with the desired end but not the means."


 


Without a doubt this is correct.   This is great but from these guys (the new, handpicked deans) there always is equivocation.



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truth4usm/AH

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quote:
Originally posted by: In the know

"I don't know if you are reading LVN right, but you are right.  Ask Martray, Ferrell, Boudreaux."


And Terry Harper (Lib Arts), Mark Miller (CISE), even Steve Doblin (CoST), for that matter (he wasn't one of the ones fired (he left before the mass firings) but he had more integrity in his pinky finger than all of SFT and Co.).

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