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Post Info TOPIC: Taking other people's inventory vs. telling the truth


Senior Member

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Taking other people's inventory vs. telling the truth


I was over a friend's house who is in the program and he showed me a birthday card from his daughter. She had written in the card that she will always be there for him. I felt sick to my stomach when I read that sentence. I wound up lying and saying that it was a nice card, then couldn't figure out if I should have told him that it is emotional incest for his daughter to feel she has to emotionally take care of him or not saying anything at all. I am very confused about this. What is the healthy thing to do? I have been contemplating calling him and telling him the truth, but don't know if it is my place to do so. Also, I don't feel he is healthy for me to be friends with since this is very sick behavior. Does anyone have any experience with this?



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~*Service Worker*~

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hmm... interesting. If I knew someone very extremely well and knew without a doubt another's motivations, even if I did tell them, they might not be in a place to accept, hear, understand what I am saying.

I don't think it's taking one's inventory to simply observe an unheathly situation, person or circumstance. It's just ppl often take those things as criticism. Even if someone asks you specifically for the truth ( I have lots of experience using the truth to cut through things) they often get angry when they hear it... they kill the messenger you know.
   I had to learn tp differentiate when a person could handle hearing the truth, even when they ask me for it, there are times now where I simply do not go there anymore.

Since, u said u don't know them very well but it seems very unhealthy... his daughter simply saying "I'll always be there for you" may or may not mean anything emotional. Maybe she doesn't know what to say or ho to support and love him and she just said that ~ who knows.

I have made judgements about what I thought I perceived and have been wrong, a lot. If I were really seriously compelled to say something (maybe hp is nudging you) I would simply make a comment or statement as objectively as possible. Like, 'our kids can't be held responsible for being our emotional support, we have to get that from within. Our emotions are our responsibility.' And leave it at that. A non-threatening seed for thought and it is a universal truth, period. Besides, it's really non of our business and we can't 'make' another perceive or get our thought... maybe they will, maybe they won't understand.
    Maybe it will open a dialogue for you two. Keep it objective, pray on it, release it  and see what hp/intuition motivates you to do about it after a day or two.

One of my issues for learning when to get involved or not, has been me stepping back, MYOB, realizing that my need to be "right" or clever backfires a lot. I too want to help other people, they aren't always willing. Besides who am I to think I am right, we all have our own truths. And put it up to THINK... is is thoughtful, honest, intelligent, necessary and kind?


A wise member of al-anon told me, any time I am confused, it means i am not accepting something.



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Light, Love, Peace, Blessings & Healing to Us All. God's Will Be Done. Amen.


~*Service Worker*~

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What is your motive for wanting to tell him "the truth?"

What does it have to do with you?

Remember, "they gotta need it, they gotta want it, and they gotta ask for it." The wisdom of the program is for you and if HP wills that anyone should ever glean anything from us, HP will make that happen.

Thanks for the reminder.







-- Edited by glad lee at 11:02, 2008-09-27

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The prayer isn't for Higher Power to change our lives, but rather to change us.



~*Service Worker*~

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kissers if it feels yucky, just do not go there- do not hang with him. Politely dismiss yourself. You do not need to judge. You can simply say this is not working for you and leave it at that. It feels weird to you and you are stopping to look at that. Perhaps you were placed in a similar situation when you were a young person, I know I was. I had to emotionally support and take care of both of my parents 24/7. This is very typical alkie stuff as I know you know. Its weird boundary stuff. Hugs, J.

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Senior Member

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glad dee - I have no motive other than telling the truth to be an honest person, but I was grappling with the right thing to do.

Jean - Thank you. I think this is exactly what I will do.

kitty - A wise member of al-anon told me, any time I am confused, it means i am not accepting something. - I think I was not accepting that this is not a healthy person for me to be around and to just leave it instead of staying and trying to "fix" their sick behavior.

I did grow up with parents who did this and would try to make excuses for it. I can no longer make the excuses for it and stick my head in the mud thinking stuff like this will just go away. I guess I am just learning who is safe for me to have in my life. I am starting to place boundaries for what I allow into my life now and still grapple with it from time to time. He will have to figure out for himself what he's doing and why his relationships don't work. It's not my job.

Thank you all for your sharings.

Kissers

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~*Service Worker*~

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Maybe it just hits home for you and you dont necessarily need to "do" anything. When I am in fix it mode I certainly have to detach. I do know as far as the program goes I am often triggered by other people's stuff.  I can't really say it is all about "them".

Maresie

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maresie
SLS


Senior Member

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Whose truth would you be telling?? It sounds like it would be your truth and not necessarily theirs. I think that Al-Anons have a tendency, not only to want to fix others, but to apply our own "truth" to others' situations. To me, that is taking someone else's inventory.

My gut reaction to your post was that it is none of your business. Their relationship will continue as is or change as they wish, just as my relationship with my AH will continue as is or change as we wish. If anyone had told me what to do or given their impressions of the dysfunction of my relationship when I first came to Al-Anon, I never would have come back and I would have missed the miracle. I think that that is one of the reasons that we are so careful about not telling others what to do in their relationships.

Additionally, I would be extremely reluctant to throw around words like "emotional incest" when describing someone else's relationship. It would be different, in my mind, if he had asked for your input on the emotional or psychological importance of what she had written. But, it seems as though all he did was share with you a card that he had received from his daughter that brought him happiness.

If you sense some dynamic in their relationship that triggers you, then you might think about whether you should continue the relationship. And, if you can do so without imposing your judgments on their relationship.

Having recently had my inventory taken by someone in program that I barely know, I am a bit touchy about this subject. But I think your post also provoked me to respond because I have an extremely close relationship with my Mother. During my three plus years in Program, we have both worked on boundaries and enmeshment, but I knlow that I would still lay my life down for her and that will never change--hopefully, though, I would do it in a more healthy manner now.  smile

Yours in recovery,

SLS

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The Bible, from Courage to Change, p.138




~*Service Worker*~

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kissers,

Good to mull this over. I was pondering this myself today. I am taking their inventory or telling the truth. Their behavior directly effects me so I am deciding to tell the truth. I was told to ask myself is it their business, my business or God's business.

In support,
Nancy

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~*Service Worker*~

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Call me senile or call me stupid, but I'm just not getting how one simple statement-'I'll always be there for you'-qualifies as taking care of someone emotionally, or qualifies as emotional incest.

I have often told my youngest AD I will always be there for her, meaning a mother's love never dies, but that doesn't mean I 'take care of her' emotionally or enable her.

Honestly, I am completely boggled how you concluded what you did from that card?

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~*Service Worker*~

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taking other peoples inventory , ummm were not supposed to  be doing that are we ?  your perception and thier reality may not be the same thing , I would hope u keep your thoughts on this to yourself for your sake not thiers .  Louise

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~*Service Worker*~

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Kissers, I think it's easy when I simply ask myself, what would be my motive? Because if my motive is to change someone, or to fix them, or to set things straight, or to open their eyes.... I am off my side of the street.... outside my circle, whatever you like to call it.

HOWEVER, when I hang out with someone in the program, and I know they are "practicing" like I am, we do tend to be honest with one another. Still, if I didn't act on it at the time, I would probably not want to phone them back and say, "You know, I've been thinking... " It's more like obsessing.

My experience is, when HP needs us to learn something, there will be many opportunities for us to learn it. It's wrong to put ourselves in the god seat and force our will upon others so that WE feel more comfortable being around them. Been there, done that, my life became unmanageable.

Walking with you,
gladlee



-- Edited by glad lee at 21:30, 2008-09-28

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The prayer isn't for Higher Power to change our lives, but rather to change us.



~*Service Worker*~

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Aloha Kissers!!

Seems like you had a reaction to what was written in the card?  It affected you
more than he?  Alot of what I learned in recovery follows what was in SLS's
reply to you and I still use it as a guide today.  I have also had others openly
take my inventory in the past.  I learned I could listen to it and consider it and
then reply to it.  Most of the time those who "openly" (not inwardly) took my
inventory got a response from me...a "thank you for the mirror" or a "you got
it wrong" response.  Emotional incest sounds like a psycologically engineered
description best left up to the professionals.  Because of the alcoholism and
drug addiction history in my family and all the consequences that came from it,
that word on any level would cause a nasty reaction.

The Al-Anon Program is one of acceptance, compassion and love.  It is only
spiritual.  Best ask your HP what direction to take while considering the
responses of family.

Your's in love and service.   (((((hugs))))) smile

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~*Service Worker*~

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Well I think one thing that is healthy about your post is putting it out there looking for red flags rather than bypassing them. In my search for companionship these days one thing I do is take it real real slow rather than super fast. I used to m-erge with people. I'd give them everything and we'd give each other tons of stuff, talk about love bomb.

I had no idea how to look for a red flag before. I accepted everyone on face value. I've been talking to one man for a while recently on line and I've decided not to meet him because he's too bossy. That's a first for me. I doubt I will confront him with the information. i will probably just say I am way too busy.

i know for me its too hard to be friends with people who are actively codependent these days, not recovering from codependency but codependent and think its healthy. I find the boundaries too difficult to maintain.

maresie.

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maresie


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very interesting conversation...

A lot of wise things have been said already...

I wouldn't necessarily imply anything from a card like that.. It could just be 'one of those things' people say without thinking, or knowing what it could mean to someone else.. It can definitely be interpreted in many ways... (just 'general' or 'too specific', like what you said..)
A discussion on this might be in order, but a very detached non-threatening discussion, with no words like 'incest' around too... (they are very strong words imo) - maybe in general about what people expect & get from kids, parent-kids relationships etc.

More importantly, other things one learns about the person would be the clues.. How does this person treat you & others? (& himself?) do they respect boundaries? etc.

Parents often expect emotional support from kids, & it's not always 'incest'... or 'emotional incest'... It's better to get support elsewhere, from own network...

Looking for flags is very important, yeah... I was not always looking for them in the past either... & sometimes had to learn things 'the hard way'... sometimes I even broke contact with people & later after a few years 'reunited' with them but then later on realized there was a reason we broke contact in the 1st place... (not respected boundaries & such..)
I think I need to read more on this codependent thing lol... :)

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