I wonder if anyone of us can attend the council meeting when they table the so called detailed report from the experts and also when they present the five designs, including the one which is made inhouse.

I know curiosity kills the cat.. but somehow, i am more keen to know how & on what parameters have they designed and estimated the proposal!!

Capt. Anup, do you have anything in your mind to suggest? what we the Mysoreans should be doing rather than blogging, writing to newspapers etc.,? we need to stop writing to newspapers, coz it just fills up the columns... not further effect... neither the editors of the newspapers nor the authorities reply or react..

That's why I thought about about wait for the report to be tabled.. Or would Capt. Anup be interested in starting a meaningful & effective campaign?

I read an article in Indian Express dtd 21st Jan 2006 titled "Facelift to shravanabelagola monuments" on page two, a big article on how ancient monuments and construction are being resored using original materials. The person who has been awarded this contract and who has rich experience in such restoration is Mr. Ravi Gundu Rao of Mysore. He's the same person who had also approached the Dy Commissioner Mr. Selva Kumar along with Mr. KB Ganapathy (SOM) and others to put a stay on the demolition or hasty decision by the MCC regarding our Devaraja Market. I could not find it on the net edition at this time and hence could not link the article.

When we have such talent in our city and our notable persons who are good at restoration, why is there still no move by the MCC? There's a cold war between the Mayor and the MCC Commissioner on other issues and the Market has taken a back seat. Fortuntately it is the dry season now otherwise another roof at the Market would have collapsed while the MCC sleeps.

This is not to advertise my blog but Mysoreans have been cheated by not only our city fathers but also by the State Government and I have written a note about the issue of Mysore Airport in my latest blog titled: "Competition pains".

Since Mysore Airport is also technically a "heritage" airport as its been there very long, much before India's independence and was used by the Maharaja's DC-3 Dakota  other British raj rulers at that time, maybe there should be a public debate on that issue as well. Like the Devaraja Market, maybe we should also question whether Mysore Airport at Mandakalli is also going to be a scrap heap of history?

Actually madhukar, I have been reading other posting on the different blog page and it seems that some of these organizations who ought to be vocal in this area are making noises selectively. They have indicated, although not directly, that they have too much on their plate, so to speak. The rest of us, who are not a part of any organization, I'd say a majority, need to do something before everything crumbles.

Yours truly also visits mysore, more these days than previously. Those who are retired and live here don't really get involved as much as those of us not here all the time. I don't intend to pass any judgements but this is what I feel. Anyhow, I will be contacting you and some other people and see how we can take this issue forward. Cannot let it die.

To all who have been active about this issue on this blog, I did put in a word or two about the Devaraja Market issue in the topic "MGP's speed bump Infosys" in one of my replies. Interested persons may read that blog to get my drift.

I had written a follows: "Why do some of these organizations jump from one issue to the other. Is there a shortage of people in such organizations that those issues that are on the front burner one day goes to the back burner when another issue comes up? All the noise about Devaraja Market, what happened after the dust settled? Why the deafening silence from the MGP or others? Are we still waiting for the roof to collapse again?" Gen. Vombatkere replied to this part of my write up, in his reply.

Here are some of the relevant portions of my reply (mentioned in the above referenced topic) reg the Market to Gen. Vombatkere:

"I like to stick to core issues related to Mysore and particularly the Market issue and later perhaps the restoration of other heritage buildings and the Mysore Airport."

"if there’s anything I can do with respect to the Market issue, I’d be looking for help from all quarters and would be also volunteering to help bring about a solution for this issue in particular. "

I would like some ideas from people reading and taking part in this blog to inform about any action that may be taken to bring a resolution to this issue before it becomes a crisis. ASAP please! To those of us that can handle one issue at a time, this is a perfect opportunity to do something. We are, I think, in an election year as far as MCC is concerned. This must be used as a tool for pressurizing our city fathers/mothers to do something before it is too late.

Do anyone of the readers think that a signature campaign of relevant people and the general public, submitted to the MCC, will start the ball rolling? I'm ready and willing to bell the cat when it comes to it. I don't thik we must do anything under the umbrella of other organizations since these organizations including the MGP have done and are doing their bit, in their way, to bring about a solution and are "known" to the MCC. The rest of us ordinary folk must also make ourselves heard, without organization or a club of sorts.

Lets start with what we have been able to do so far. Just blogging on this topic and the "usual suspects" being the major contributors to the Devaraja Market issue. Other than Mr. Madhukar, the rest of the bloggers have so far not responded to the idea that I proposed, that of a organizing a signature campaign.

Some bloggers and others who browse these blog topics have not even decided or made their opinions known. Fence sitters. I met a lot of persons of some standing in Mysore and every one of then were of the opinion that a signature campaign was going to be successful in terms of collecting signatures and not successful in terms of that (signed petition) having an impact with the authorities. Fair enough.

The Government of Karnataka has formed a Heritage Task Force and Committee. This committee has clearly mentioned what their intentions are. They have, in their letter to the Mysoer Corporation, dated 19th Jan of this year, recommended for the RESTORATION of the Devaraja Market. They have further recommended that the works can be taken up locally since there is local expertise, the works need to be done in stages, the work has to be taken before May and Before the onset of the next monsoon. I support this completely.

I am in discussions with some eminent persons who are experts in the field of restoration and we will be forming some strategy, to be made known to the public in due course of time. It will involve the elected and appointed representatives. They will be made aware, by various means, that Mysoreans own this town and that no decission can be taken without the consent of the citizenry. There is going to be no let up in our activity. There are, it seems, 232 heritage structures and buildings in Mysore. We must conserve them and have development side by side, not development at the cost of destruction of our heritage. The older generation, who have lost hope in the system must be tapped for advice. The youger generation, the sms and pizza generation need to be made aware of their heritage. Once all of us know the value of our heritage, we will never allow some one to destroy the same. I hope that our fellow bloggers, although small in number, will support all efforts of the heritage task force committee and others who are committed to restore Mysore to its glory.

I know some people who browse this topic and who don't agree with some of the views. What we have is a participatory democracy. Dissent is welcome. One of our friends feels that my endeavour of restoring the market is a wrong move. He feels that a multi story building, narrow (So that sayyaji rao road may be widened) and tall will do the trick. he feels that this will de-congest the city center. OK, lets have a difference of opinion. It would be nice if this person writes a dissent note on this topic. When people don't agree with something, they just avoid the topic. Don't know if this is an "Indian" trait! Lets have disagreements, let there be dissent. Thats what participatory democracy is all about.

Just a note, when they broke down the old market in bangalore and built a new one at KR Market, they made it multi storied. Did that de-congest the area? Also, why are the floors 3 and 4 unoccupied at the KR Market in bangalore? Is it because no one is going to climb three to four stories to shop and lug stuff down? Is it convenient? Is it feasible? Does MCC have so much money, what with ADB loans on its head that is seemingly not under control?

I wish I hear more dissenting voices in words on this blog. Not to shoot them down but lets question everything (due apolgies to CNN-IBN). Thanks Mr. Madhukar, you live elsewhere but are more concerned with Mysore issues than most living here.

I do have some answers Mr. Yerapathi. Some thoughts, actrually. I met some of the heritage task force and know the names of the rest, no secret, they have been mentioned in Star of Mysore several times and includes Gen. Vombatkere who has been bloggin in this forum, Dr. Parpia, Ravi gundu Rao, Dr. MS Nagraj Rao, Ranga Raju, university of Mysore history and archeology dept profs and others, they are not commercially minded at all, they have no benefits one way or the other and are actually doing good work.

Why was their recommendations not taken up yet? Ask the MCC and the MCC commissioner to be precise. My belief is that none of the politicians at the MCC or its appointed head have any benefit if the structure is not demolished and a multi story building put up.

Why the market in Bangalore is vacant in the third and fourth floors? Thats because it is a vegetable and fruit market, just like Devaraja Market. It is not a commercial mall like garuda mall and others. No veggie seller will be able to afford to be in a mall and sell his greens for Rs5/Kg. Thats why it is lying vacant. No one will trudge up those flights of stairs when they can buy the same thing on the ground floor. Its that simple.

As for allowing the Authorities to decide whether they are in favour of demolition or restoration, I don't think they are empowered to take decisions unilaterally without consulting the stake holders. One of the stake holders, the heritage task force committee have alredy tabled a report asking for restoration. No questions there. Anyway, why should we wait for the Authorities before we take the next step? Who are they? Is this  Cuba or North Korea we are living in?

Some of the other stake holders are silent on this issue all of a sudden. Thats because they are involved in too many activities.

A short passing comment as am in a tight schedule at the office.

Are the Shop keepers really paying their rents? If so at what rate?
We throw out our tenents if they do not pay their rents? cant the same be applied here?

Now that I have a few minutes of Leisure (note my latest post to the topic in Information - certainly not publicing it), I get back to the point raised by Mr Suresh Yerapathi and Capt. Murthy on KR Market, Bangalore.

I am "unfortunate" enough to be residing in Bangalore out of compulsion rather than by choice. I had occassion to visit the KR Market in Bangalore although I had passed the row of shops in front of the new complex. (Note that the shops in front are still in the old building - Heritage?). The minute I went through the passage leading to the mulitstoried Market complex it was chaos as ususal. Although the upper tiers are vacant, loads of road side hawkers with permanent stalls for fruits, vegetables, condiments, etc., are present.
Vegetables are still sold only on the ground floor and cellar levels.

Now compare it with the likes of the new "All under one roof concept" found in BIG BAZAAR -*-. Even there the vegetables, which tend to be rather dirty, bulky and which cannot be properly stacked, are placed only on the ground floor. It is only the luxury items that are placed above ground floor.

The concept under which the Devaraja Market and the like were started was to provide a place where all the vegetable "GROWERS" had a common place where they could bring their produce to be sold directly to the buyer. The buyer could also have the choice of selecting the best available produce and get it at a competetive price. After selling their produce for the day, they would leave (staying back only if they were not able to sell their entire lot) the place and go back to their villages only to come back with the next lot of harvest. There was plenty of time to clear the place of the left overs and get it ready for the coming day.

The present situation is that the growers/producers bring their produce to the place behind the Dassara Exhibition Complex off the Mysore-Nilgiri Road where they sell to the people who have "OCCUPIED" the interior of Devaraja Market and made it their fullfledged residence. Hence there is no time now for clearing the garbage of not only the unsellable products but also the mess created by the people living in the complex.

When such is the case, will these people living inside allow for the demolition of the building and allow the construction of the proposed multistoried complex? Certainly not. They will then cry foul at being "deprived" of their living space.

If construction of a multistoried complex is to be done, it can be done anywhere else.

The original Devaraja Market can be restored to its long lost glory by providing space only for the growers. The Market place can be kept clean. The traffic congestion will be only during the early morning on Sayyaji Rao Road and Dhanvantari Road.

C'mon, just to collect rent and maintenance, one cannot demolish and re-build. Thats like saying when one gets a head ache, the solution is to cut off ones head! Whats the guarantee that one can take control if it is rebuilt? Again, who's got the money to demolish and re-build, Mr. Yerapathi? The MCC is up to it's neck in debt it seems. We will end up with a half broken down building for a long time, looking at how things have been done so far in Mysore and that by the time the building is half demolished, some one will go to court and halt the proceedings and then we'll have this broken down building in the middle of Mysore for the next ten years or so and then perhaps we can promote tourism in Mysore saying that this market "sort of" looks like the broken down colliseum in central Rome! 

Also, it seems some of us have taken it to heart that ALL the tenants at the Market are defaulters and that every one has to be punished en-mass! 

Look, if the MCD of Delhi can attach the bank accounts of hospitals, well known schools and other organizations who have not paid their land tax and other rentals, why can't the MCC do the same? If you are looking at better revenue from the building and better collection methods, MCC Mysore must have the guts to come up with an answer.  

Of course, the MCC officials will not want that. The MCC Commissioner has gone on record that the Torsteel foundation calls for demolishing and rebuilding and I have a copy of their "report" Oh about 4 pages long with useless pictures in between and it says nothing of the sort. We have to trust these people to get the rebuilding work done? They will only line their pockets and thats the bottom line. Restoration is far cheaper, can be done without the MCC and if they don't have the money, there are various grants available and I know some corporates that can part foot the bill. Nobody will contribute to re-building the market as the contractor and MCC officials will pocket that money. 

As one heritage minded citizen with a long background in conservation of World heritage Sites (UNESCO mind you) put it, Mysoreans need to be educated about their history and heritage. Thats the only way to ensure that they understand the value of conservation.

Great and a very good point Capt. Murthy!!

Lets work towards restoring the whole D'Market and we all should make sure that the Devaraja Market will not be and shall not be demolished. The Deveraja Market will be restored..

Is there any possibility among us to put in the resources to collate information and do up a proposal detailing costs implications, procedures, etc., with restoration.

Like the Mysore Citizen's Forum, which did work at Tsunami affected villages, we can envisage another forum for Devaraja Market. Like you said Capt. that we can go full force with the corporates to chip in whatever resources are needed for the same.

What do everybody think?

My thought process was on similar lines but not with donations and contributions.. Tsunami relief work needed generous contributions, but Devaraja market doesn't need contributions.. But what Devaraja Market needs at the momemt is the collective movement to gather information and compile a project proposal as to how much it would cost to restore as per the standards of restoration.

The forum should look after restoration process, implementation process and work with the authorities to ensure the proper funding is managed.

Capt. Murthy, we all have known that the heritage committee has drawn up a proposal, but are you or we aware of the contents.. is the proposal having the suggestions, costs implications and how the project is going to be implemented? I am not sure about the details..

I think the Heritage committee should and must get involved with the finalization process! A forum as strong as the MCF is the need of the hour to restore the Devaraja Market. The Committee seems to have adopted the strategy of wait and watch.. if they can't move the papers across, then no one can!! well if there is a strong forum with its crystal clear objective of restoring Devaraja Market, then it would and will make a difference to the authorities.

I am not sure whether the Committee has even gone to the extent of asking the authorities as to what might be the status of the report? if they have asked the concern authorities.. what could have been the reply? and Why the delay?

Thanks about the NGO's & the toilets blog link.. I did glance through it and felt not to reply to that..

 

A reply to Mr. Yerapathi, yes, I have read a copy of the report that the heritage committee has sent to the MCC. it is all in Kannada. That does not contain costs but makes a case for conservation. However, a committee member has written a letter and a brief report and has also made estimates and this is also with the MCC. The MCC knows the cost, no doubt about it. The heritage committee is empowered to make certain things known to the MCC and the Ministry at the state level. It cannot force the MCC to act.

The MCF is not a strong forum as such. It is a collection of people who decided to do things on their own. However, you are right, we must form a strong collection of citizens for going into this issue as well just like MCF.  

Mr. Vijendra Rao, like we say in the US, it ain't over till the fat lady sings! Not too late yet unless we do something now with the heritage sites including lansdowne buildings and others.