Landships II

Centurion · Legend

Schnieder CA 2 and CA 3

SASH155 · Major

Sorry Robert, I looked in all my French sources for the CA2 and CA3, but no photos or drawings, they are mentioned though briefly, but neither of them was built in any quantity as they were prototypes and as a result they did not see service use. In some earlier note I wrote that the 75mm gun used on the Schneider CA1 and the FT-17 'char-canon' tanks was designated 'SB' (sic.) (Schneider-Bourges). In actuality L'Atelier de Bourges had nothing to do with this weapons development or production as far as I know, and the actual designation of BS (an unfortunate moniker in an English context) simply stood for 'Blochaus Schneider'.

-- Edited by SASH155 at 19:24, 2006-01-14

eugene · Field Marshal

Hi robert,
this summer Tim Rigsby sent me some great photos of Ca 2 trails,

I attached the photos (curtesy Tim Rigsby)

Eugene

Roger Todd · Legend

Good God, what a pair of ugly brutes!

Amazing, although it's a bit difficult to make out what they are, are they basically big boxy jobs like the Schneider, with turrets perched on top of what look like very tall hulls?

eugene · Field Marshal

now come on, I think they need some loving

(did you notice that the fuel tanks are still on top of these tanks? So the French havent corrected that one, there also appears to be some sort of unditching gear on them, which is a good idea

Centurion · Legend

Roger Todd wrote:

Good God, what a pair of ugly brutes!

Exactly my reaction. No wonder Estienne intervened and suggested that they abandon the Ca 2 and get on with the Ca 3. One wonders if this was the other ugly sister.

Hedi · Lieutenant-Colonel

If had of the CA2 trial a video, it still searches.
Here the CA-3 as a drawing.

Greeting

eugene · Field Marshal

looks like a much better tank, big improvement from both Ca1 and Ca2, I think the French should have given this a shot

Centurion · Legend

Hedi wrote:

If had of the CA2 trial a video, it still searches. Here the CA-3 as a drawing. Greeting

Thanks - now I can see what it looks like.

Roger. I understand that the French logic was something like ' its got the same trench crossing capacity as the St chamond - which isn't good, and the St chamond has a bigger gun gallic shrug of shoulders why bother'

J Fullerton · Captain

It looks like it's trench-crossing ability would be notably better than the st Chamond....in forward, at least. The overhang is only in the back.

Roger Todd · Legend

Centurion wrote:

Roger. I understand that the French logic was something like ' its got the same trench crossing capacity as the St chamond - which isn't good, and the St chamond has a bigger gun gallic shrug of shoulders why bother'

Followed by, "Ah well, we can always get some decent tanks off the perfidious shopkeepers across La Manche..."

That drawing is excellent, Hedi. The turreted vehicle, the CA2, looks incredibly topheavy though. And I think you're right Eugene, those do look like fuel tanks on top - wouldn't want to be in that...

Tim R · Hero

Hello Guys,

You are right Eugene those are armored fuel tanks, I have been doing some research on the CA2, CA3 and the CA4 for some time know, information seems to be very hard to find, even with my leads in France, has turned up very little information.

I have found a some what questionable CA2 drawing; I have also found the CA3 drawing Hedi has shared with us. But alas nothing on the CA4. I was hoping to do an article on the prototype and paper project Schneider�s in the near future, but unless more information is found, I guess we will have to keep speculating.

All the Best

Tim R.

eugene · Field Marshal

Ca4?
didnt even know there was such a thing, could you share some basic info on it Tim/

thanks

Tim R · Hero

I will try and dig the CA4 information up this afternoon, and post it for you

All the Best

Tim R

Hedi · Lieutenant-Colonel

RE: Schneider CA 2 and CA 3

Centurion · Legend

RE: Schnieder CA 2 and CA 3

Hedi · Lieutenant-Colonel

I use Windows Media Player 10 under WindowsXP.

Have load *. mpeg version. Larger file (16 MB) and worse quality!

Greeting

-- Edited by Hedi at 22:22, 2006-01-18

Roger Todd · Legend

It just won't run on my PC, plus I'm sure some adware tried to download as well (Avenue Inc, I think)...

Hedi · Lieutenant-Colonel

I hope the MPEG-version functioned.

Hedi

Matt Heil · Lieutenant

Whoa! That's some awesome footage! They look just like over-tall copies of the Renault FT. Although the turret on the CA2 (That's the turreted one, right? I'm not sure which is which) looks a lot like that on the later Char 2C.
Thanks for the video, Hedi!
Matt

Tim R · Hero

Hedi

Thanks a million, AWESOME!!!!!! what more can I say?????

Thanks a Million.

All the best

Tim R.

Bodlosh · Sergeant

Could someone upload this video again, please

Thanks

James H · Legend

Good grief. They look like siege towers.

James H · Legend

Please help.

I can't get into the website to see the video. I keep entering the password but just keep going round in circles. Any ideas?

Hedi · Lieutenant-Colonel

Hello,

Here once again the access to the videos: CA1, CA2 and Mark IV Beute.

http://service.gmx.net/mc/ul4aYCjviquQn2acJItEMh1UJ5Xdfl

This guest access is password-protected. For starting, the petition of the following access-code is necessary: midgard

Reference: That left for the guest access to the GMX media center is valid to the 19.3.2007.

Greetings

Tanker · Field Marshal

Bonsoir,

One exemple of the Schneider CA 2 was built and test in Champlieu in May 1917. This tank was � command tank with a 47 mm gun's turret in the middle.
This tank was refused by G�n�ral Estienne and send to Marly (Fort du trou d'enfer for instruction). Il was a CA 1 without nose.
The end ot this model is not known.

The three tank's photos of this topic are those of a tank only built for the film . . . It's not a Schneider CA.

The project CA 3 was refused in July 1917 by General Estienne, and stop by General P�tain the 8 November 1917. The only reason is the motor's power : the same as CA 1 for 5 tons more. Schneider could not built a powerful motor.
200 chassis of CA 3 was already built and they was used for the command of the artillery's tractors called Schneider CD.

Schneider proposed seven variants of CA 3.
The F. Heigl's plans from 1925 is the project S 1058/1059 (variante of project S 1056/1057)
The project S 1033 was a model with 75 mm in a front blockhaus.
The project S 1050/S 1051 was models with 75 mm model 97 short in turret.
For all this project, the motor was in the rear.

For schneider the name of the CA 1 project was S 990.

Michel

-- Edited by Tanker at 21:32, 2009-01-13

Tim R · Hero

Tanker
�� Thank you for this information. I dare not ask, "oh well I will anyway" wink

do you have a photo or sketch of the CA2?

All the Best
Tim R.

Tanker · Field Marshal

Bonsoir Tim

I am sorry but, about CA 2, it is just�the report of the test in Champlieu with a little hand-made sketch.
I don't known if some photos were done in Champlieu or in Marly. I never seen, for instance photos of this mod�le. . . .

On this little sketch the turret was in the middle of the tank and not in front of the tank like on CA 3 project.
This sketch was only there to explain the problems of this model to cross over tranches ans shell's holes.

For the next project (CA3), Heigl's plans is good. The tracks was 370 mm longer than on CA 1.

Michel

Tim R · Hero

Michel
� Thank you for the additional information, Can you possiably explain what the turret looked like in the sketch.
All the Best
Tim R.

Tanker · Field Marshal

Bonjour Tim,

I don't forgot you and tray to do�some good sketches�in the next 2 or 3 weeks. . . .
If you can to go to Paris. Most important informations on CA 2 ans 3 are in folder 16N2131 in Vincennes. . . but the reading room of SHD will be closed from January 16 th, 2009 to March 16 th, 2009.

Bonne apr�s midi - Michel

-- Edited by Tanker at 13:03, 2009-01-15

Tim R · Hero

Michel
� Thank you for the information. �I am actually planning a trip to France this summer for me and my wifes 15th anniversery. I will try and do some reasearch while we are there.
Do you happen to have the project number of the CA2
All the Best
Tim R.

fran�ois vauvillier · Sergeant

What a very interesting topic, together with the companion topic " Schneider CA 3 : phoney" to be found elsewhere on the forum.

I can only add one point of interest to the Schneider CA 3 obscure history. Its suspension system and track can be seen (I mean, really, not as a movie dummy) on many wartime photographs of another Schneider prototype : the CD 3 full-tracked artillery carrier ('caterpillar porteur' in French).

I do not post photographs here, but I am sure one of the members will do it in a short while: the CD 3 is not well known, but yet not impossible to find. This is by no means a challenge.

The comparison between Heigl's sketch and the photos I am talking of is absolutely convincing.

Unfortunately, the CD 3 is definitely not a tank, but an artillery carrier. It did not see service and remained as a prototype.

I am planning a full article on this vehicle (with the Renault FB caterpillar-porteur, widely used on the front by hundreds) in the next issue of my magazine GBM (sorry, in French only)

To Michel, especially : Bonjour Michel, a great many thanks for your very well documented contributions to this topic. I have sent you a personal message some days ago. Did you receive it ?

Regards

Fran�ois

-- Edited by fran�ois vauvillier at 16:18, 2009-01-21

-- Edited by fran�ois vauvillier at 16:19, 2009-01-21

Tim R · Hero

Bonjour M.Vauviller��
�
�� I look forward to your article on the CD 3, I am sure it will be informative as usual.

How about a return email.�

More criticisms or something. wink

Schneider CA 3 : phoney?? confuse

All the Best
Tim R.

fran�ois vauvillier · Sergeant

Bonsoir Tim,

My humblest apologizes. It is absolutely true that I owe you an answer by mail. I'll do it ASAP.

The exact title of the other topic I was talking about is 'Schneider CA2 & 3 - phoney?'

All the best

Fran�ois

Tanker · Field Marshal

Bonjour Tim,

My French is, of course better, than my English and I have write (sorry but it's�in french) on Forum 14-18 about Schneider CA 2

http://pages14-18.mesdiscussions.net/pages1418/Pages-d-Histoire-Artillerie/Artillerie-Speciale/char-commandement-schneider-sujet_377_1.htm

I use to write�about French WW1 "chars d'assaut" on this Forum and you perhaps found some other interresting topics�for your members.

http://pages14-18.mesdiscussions.net/pages1418/Pages-d-Histoire-Artillerie/Artillerie-Speciale/liste_sujet-1.htm

-- Edited by Tanker at 20:05, 2009-01-22

Tim R · Hero

Bonjour Tanker

�

Absolutely awesome, thank you very much

All the Best

Tim R.

elbavaro · Commander in Chief

@Tanker: aweesome pictures. It is a pitty: I don't speak French.

Do you think you can translate it somewhere in the future?

Tanker · Field Marshal

Perhaps in a second life, when my english will be better. . . .
I am sorry but I have too much topics to do on french tanks, and not enough time. . . .
It's very long to write it in english and my technical language is not enough good.
May be some members of Landship, speaking a ggod french, will be able to do it in the next months . . .

Michel